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« Reflections on The Devil & The Fashion Industry | Main | A True Scotsman: The Boundaries of Evangelicalism »

April 26, 2007

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beepbeepitsme

You say Platonic - I say Greek.

Gadfly

Re: Are you sure you want to quote homosexual poets? What? No stoning to death today?

I'm out of practice. I haven't done any stoning in well over a fortnight.

It would be pretty hard to quote Socrates and be prejudiced against Auden. I don't think he and Alcibiades had a purely "Platonic" relationship.

Of course, I quoting Auden is not far removed from you quoting Kipling.

Recessional by R. K.
(with a nod toward your ANZAC posting)

God of our fathers, known of old --
Lord of our far-flung battle line --
Beneath whose awful hand we hold
Dominion over palm and pine --
Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
Lest we forget -- lest we forget!

The tumult and the shouting dies --
The Captains and the Kings depart --
Still stands Thine ancient sacrifice,
An humble and a contrite heart.
Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
Lest we forget -- lest we forget!

Far-called our navies melt away --
On dune and headland sinks the fire --
Lo, all our pomp of yesterday
Is one with Nineveh and Tyre!
Judge of the Nations, spare us yet,
Lest we forget -- lest we forget!

If, drunk with sight of power, we loose
Wild tongues that have not Thee in awe --
Such boastings as the Gentiles use,
Or lesser breeds without the Law --
Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
Lest we forget -- lest we forget!

For heathen heart that puts her trust
In reeking tube and iron shard --
All valiant dust that builds on dust,
And guarding calls not Thee to guard.
For frantic boast and foolish word,
Thy Mercy on Thy People, Lord!
Amen.

beepbeepitsme

I prefer this one.

"Evil is unspectacular and always human, and shares our bed and eats at our own table." - W. H. Auden

Are you sure you want to quote homosexual poets? What? No stoning to death today?

Gadfly

One of my favorite commentaries on the despair of the human condition (apart from Christ, of course).

About suffering they were never wrong,
The Old Masters; how well, they understood
Its human position; how it takes place
While someone else is eating or opening a window or just walking dully along;
How, when the aged are reverently, passionately waiting
For the miraculous birth, there always must be
Children who did not specially want it to happen, skating
On a pond at the edge of the wood:

They never forgot
That even the dreadful martyrdom must run its course
Anyhow in a corner, some untidy spot
Where the dogs go on with their doggy life and the torturer's horse
Scratches its innocent behind on a tree.
In Breughel's Icarus, for instance: how everything turns away
Quite leisurely from the disaster; the ploughman may
Have heard the splash, the forsaken cry,
But for him it was not an important failure; the sun shone
As it had to on the white legs disappearing into the green
Water; and the expensive delicate ship that must have seen
Something amazing, a boy falling out of the sky,
had somewhere to get to and sailed calmly on.

W. H. Auden, "Musee Des Beaux Arts"
To view "Icarus" (http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/bruegel/icarus.jpg)

beepbeepitsme

"If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch;
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run -
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man my son."
- Rudyard Kipling

Gadfly

Re: I don't believe I suggested that Plato spoke latin, the concern is often expressed in latin.

It was just a feeble attempt at humor.

"To be man means to reach toward being God. Or if you prefer, man fundamentally is the desire to be God."
Sartre, Exist. & Hum. Emot. pg. 63

beepbeepitsme

I don't believe I suggested that Plato spoke latin, the concern is often expressed in latin.

(Who will watch the watchers. Or who will guard the guardians.)

"Rhetoric is the art of ruling the minds of men." -
Plato

(I don't need to be ruled, so Plato can take a running leap.)

Gadfly

Re: The essential problem, (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?), was first posed by Plato in the Republic.

I had no idea that Plato spoke Latin!!!!! You got me there, I neither speak nor read it.

Great quote though - "the noble lie"

" ..the superhuman and divine is absolutely incapable of falsehood... God is perfectly simple and true both in word and deed; he changes not; he deceives not, either by sign or word, by dream or waking vision."

Plato, The Republic (phrased as questions with the affirmative understood).

beepbeepitsme

The essential problem, (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?),
was first posed by Plato in the Republic.

The perfect society as described by Socrates, relies on laborers, slaves, and tradesmen. The guardian class is to protect the city. The question is put to Socrates, who will guard the guardians? or, who will protect us against the protectors?

Plato's answer to this is: they will guard themselves against themselves. We must tell the guardians a noble lie.

The noble lie is religion.

beepbeepitsme

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Gadfly

H. L. Mencken in ?( No fair using quotes unless it is from works you have actually read.....)

"To this noble purpose (acquiring justice, temperance and wisdom) the man of understanding will devote the energies of his life. And in the first place, he will honor studies which impress these qualities on his soul..."

Plato, The Republic

beepbeepitsme

"Love is the triumph of imagination over intelligence." -
Henry Louis Mencken

Gadfly

Oh heart! oh blood that freezes, blood that burns!
Earth's returns
For whole centuries of folly, noise and sin!
Shut them in,
With their triumphs and their glories and the rest!
Love is best.

Robert Browning, Love Among The Ruins.

beepbeepitsme

Life is but a song. (La la al la la)

Gadfly

"For what do we live, but to make sport for our neighbors,
and laugh at them in our turn?"
Jane Austen, Pride and Prejudice

beepbeepitsme

The meaning of life is life.

Not very complicated.

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